tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post8541310289248372773..comments2008-02-04T10:18:12.216-08:00Paul Stewarthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16708290035565573919noreply@blogger.comBlogger267125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-2060345437895457792008-02-04T10:18:00.000-08:002008-02-04T10:18:00.000-08:00To anonymous at 6:56 a.m. (whoever you may be - doesn't make any difference to me) in regards to the website: Diaprax - I found it to be quite interesting and perhaps even a bit revealing. An interesting quote from the author Paul Proctor:"Those who go along to get along, the cowardly essence of Diaprax, are rewarded with the 'phileo' love of tolerance and flattery. Those who courageously challenge the consensus are shamed, ridiculed, or rejected for the 'hateful' attitude, 'mean-spiritedness' and 'ungodly' disruption of the group's 'purpose-driven' unity." I am in the process of reading more on this. So far it is needless to say quite interesting. Thanks for the website reference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-17149562150568698412008-02-04T09:47:00.000-08:002008-02-04T09:47:00.000-08:00May I suggest something to our AG blogging community? I think it is time to do some self-policing.<BR/><BR/>In my church, if someone sends an unsigned letter it is immediately thrown in the trash. If someone does not have the character to put their name to their thoughts and opinions, we do not respond. Period. No exceptions.<BR/><BR/>I would like to call us all to stop responding to anyone who posts anonymously. If you are going to blog, let us know who you are. If you don't know how to set up a profile, learn how before you decide to wade into the blogging waters. <BR/><BR/>This type of forum requires a certain level of transparency. Anonymity in my experience is a dangerous place to live on many levels. On this blog, some of the most caustic, inflammatory, and uncharitable responses have come by way of "anonymous." <BR/><BR/>From here on out, I vote that we ignore all anonymous postings. I would also encourage bloggers to take a few minutes and complete your profile. Letting people know who you are can go a long way toward helping you to keep your comments between the ditches.<BR/><BR/>My thought for the day.Dr. Daddyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11435744517545690954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-9941025974743155202008-02-04T07:02:00.000-08:002008-02-04T07:02:00.000-08:00since a hotly discussed topic was pulled from this site does anyone now believe that there is no pressure at all from districts/headquarters to censor thoughts and discussions? Seems mighty fishy to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-78943678879604022672008-02-04T06:56:00.000-08:002008-02-04T06:56:00.000-08:00to (anonymous) Pastor Dave February 2nd 10:25 and GPW: concerning "Tension of Opposites" google: Diaprax -that should help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-17487948318130345412008-02-03T22:06:00.000-08:002008-02-03T22:06:00.000-08:00I suppose no one is interested in the 'God' and the vote question.GaryThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00350384060399053806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-45115894878327021822008-02-03T21:17:00.000-08:002008-02-03T21:17:00.000-08:00what happened to the Timbercreek discussion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-49109540247121919922008-02-02T10:25:00.000-08:002008-02-02T10:25:00.000-08:00Pastor Dave says....what are tensions of opposites?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-77097568873280447992008-02-02T10:17:00.000-08:002008-02-02T10:17:00.000-08:00I don't know but I'm not part of it and never want to be!:)Abenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-3437916122544238562008-02-02T10:14:00.000-08:002008-02-02T10:14:00.000-08:00So Doug Clay is part of "the elite"? And who else qualifies? What are the qualifications of The Elite Club?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-60331601609421637772008-02-02T10:08:00.000-08:002008-02-02T10:08:00.000-08:00Thanks GPW....I'll look forward to itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-32560315688175608612008-02-02T09:49:00.000-08:002008-02-02T09:49:00.000-08:00Anonymous February 2, 2008 7:01 AM:<BR/><BR/>Several hundred people in a growing church is a success, in my book. In fact, that's what I'm working for in my church. I'm looking for insight/advice for people whom the Lord is using to grow a church on a website I hope to be launching within a month or so: ChurchTurnAroundNetwork.com (CTAN). I'll announce its launch on AGThinkTank.com. I'd love to hear your comments when we get to the point where the website is open. The basic question is, what are the best practices for a growing church. Also, I'd love to have some online collaboration on sermon series, small group curriculum, marketing tools, etc. So, watch for the launch of that site, either late February or early March.<BR/><BR/>GeorgeGeorge P. Woodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12540411462444890243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-12341767835945784692008-02-02T07:13:00.000-08:002008-02-02T07:13:00.000-08:00RE: Not being one of the elite<BR/><BR/>Uh, no, not really bothered. So a mentor told a mentee to examine and exercise the gifts he was given. The result was positive.<BR/><BR/>20 Years ago, I thought I was among the "elite". At some time in my 30's I finally realized I wasn't. (Everyone else had figured it out long before me). And that it didn't matter. As long as I exercisin in my giftings, I'm happy, God's happy, people are transformed. That's EFFECTIVE ministry.<BR/><BR/>Marvin J. Miller<BR/>mjmiller@palmviewchristian.orgMarvin J. Millerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17535746403857961263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-88443291091822037522008-02-02T07:01:00.000-08:002008-02-02T07:01:00.000-08:00Point well made GPW. My ministry is to several hundred people in a growing church. I have no family on my staff and it is my policy to never do so as I have seen the conflict and difficulties that it causes. I have a child studying for full-time ministry who knows that working on my staff will not happen. Now I hope everyone can accept these thoughts from such a loser right jk?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-63744943646606249762008-02-01T22:15:00.000-08:002008-02-01T22:15:00.000-08:00We are not surprised, so we are not disturbed nor acting as such.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-81361243034205536552008-02-01T22:05:00.000-08:002008-02-01T22:05:00.000-08:00"Many years ago (20) I was told personally by an elected official from Gen. Headquarters that there are the elite and that I was just not one of them and to move on with my ministry."<BR/><BR/>Is anyone else disturbed by this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-16308437148075110912008-02-01T21:25:00.000-08:002008-02-01T21:25:00.000-08:00J.K.:<BR/><BR/>Anonymous February 1, 2008 6:27 PM is quite right that we shouldn't make assumptions about the character of anonymous bloggers, let alone cast aspersions on their fortitude or ministerial effectiveness. I just wish some of the Anonymi would extend the same courtesy to people like Doug Clay. What's sauce for the goose and all that.<BR/><BR/>GeorgeGeorge P. Woodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12540411462444890243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-89148262760101745102008-02-01T21:23:00.000-08:002008-02-01T21:23:00.000-08:00Anonymous February 1, 2008 11:46 AM:<BR/><BR/>You state, by means of a rhetorical question, that truth comes from the "tension of opposites." I'd be interested in knowing what tensive opposites that supposed truth itself comes from.<BR/><BR/>GeorgeGeorge P. Woodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12540411462444890243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-58835429934111074692008-02-01T19:43:00.000-08:002008-02-01T19:43:00.000-08:00If we really believe 'God' is the one who chooses our leaders through the election process, it would be a serious lack of trust to 'withdraw' our name from consideration. Or are we electing someone who doesn't share that view of 'God's' involvement? If Bro. Doug Clay withdrew his name at an earlier time, why now when the election is less than a year later is it 'God's' will for him to accept a post as 'God's will?' Do I decide which job I am best suited for or does 'God?' If we really believe that 'God' is in charge of the election process, why do we have 'prerequisite' qualifications? I am confused.GaryThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00350384060399053806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-68325857725162972672008-02-01T18:27:00.000-08:002008-02-01T18:27:00.000-08:00wow JK, you're really assuming a lot there. So the fact that someone is anonymous and has a dissenting view means that they are not necessarily "successful"? Consider this. I actually pastor a thriving church A/G of several hundred people that is growing, and all of my children are serving the Lord, one of whom is studying for the pastorate themselves. The rest who serve in lay ministry. I also have a good reputation among my peers. Maybe some people on here choose to be anonymous because in their minds they have quite a bit to protect, meaning a successful family and ministry and don't want to cause harm to those things just by the fact that they want to share their honest opinion without concern that it could come back on them. I'm sure there may be anonymous posters who might fit what you describe but to say that anyone with an anonymous viewpoint fits this category is denial of the truth. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand and think that you should write off any critical comments as being written by a bunch of losers, but I guarantee that's not the facts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-85547447948206328092008-02-01T17:23:00.000-08:002008-02-01T17:23:00.000-08:00How many of you anonymous blogers that don't have the guts to post your name have either of these:<BR/>1. A church less than 75 that has remained static for the past year?<BR/>2. How many of you have family members on your staff?<BR/>3. How many are simply jealous becasue they do not have the educational or spiritiual background to even lead their own families?J.K. Wastermannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-40825301553745609522008-02-01T16:50:00.000-08:002008-02-01T16:50:00.000-08:00It's definitely true that God's will is not always done or we would not be instructed in the Lord's prayer to pray for it to be done. Anonymous 3:32, you are right that to say so is arrogance and really naive at best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-65370609468598034702008-02-01T15:32:00.000-08:002008-02-01T15:32:00.000-08:00To say every single position has been the will of God is ludicrous. Men and movements miss God and it is spiritual arrogance to say otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-38876515558786201632008-02-01T11:46:00.000-08:002008-02-01T11:46:00.000-08:00Where within the executives is the "tension of opposites?" This is where truth comes from is it not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-69047853137418387452008-02-01T11:28:00.000-08:002008-02-01T11:28:00.000-08:00In all of my thirty plus years of ministry within the A/G any and all elected/appointed from the Section through the Gen. Council have always been declared the Will of God and will be even when we "mandate" and require certain ones-to be elected to particular positions - it's still the Will of God. Why would we want it any other way. That is a good thing that doesn't need to be changed by any change agents, post-moderns or emergents. Bro. Clay is following the Lord's will just as anyone else would. That really is not the issue. Neither does the fact of relation seem to be the issue. What appears to be the real issue is being one of the elite. With all sincerety there always has been an elite and always will be an elite. That is not a wrong thing. Many are groomed for particular positions from the Section to the General Office. There is no problem with that. It's alright to choose those whom you desire to work with. Why not? Who ever said it was wrong? Why struggle with someone who doesn't have the same vision? It's really okay to be a "yes" man when the Holy Spirit is leading. Who would want to be the "no" guy? What Pastor wants to be opposed at every turn? Why be negative for the sake of being negative? Jesus chose twelve and then three. The problem is there are many who are just simply jealous and want to sit in somebody else's chair all the time.<BR/>Many years ago (20) I was told personally by an elected official from Gen. Headquarters that there are the elite and that I was just not one of them and to move on with my ministry. He was absolutely correct. I have traveled and still am around the world with ministry opportunities that I do not believe I would have had any other way. This is the most exciting time of my life! When we stand before God He is not going to say "Well done pastor of an extremely large church or leader of such and such ministry or fellowship, author of many books, critical thinker, change agent, (not excuse for doing nothing, etc.) etc. God doesn't look at things the same way we do. What God will say as we know will be Well done good and "faithful" servant. God will put us where He wants us and no one or anything can thwart that (outside of our own will) in spite of all the attempts.<BR/>I beleive we all understand that success is faithfulness and obedience. Everybody has a place on the "wall" and are called to be faithful to that ministry. I have been "placed" "Chosen" by God where I am. Nothing in Hell or out of Hell can change it. God groomed me for this place at this time for these people. He molded me and appointed me - I feel a sermon coming on - Glory! It's alright to be chosen. It really isn't anyone elses business. Elite? yes there always will be - even among those who are so desperately attempting to be change agents or whatever their agenda is. There's nothing wrong with preparing certain people for specific ministries, jobs, etc.we should expect that and encourage it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7990275224318718843.post-16177998935108869992008-01-31T14:26:00.000-08:002008-01-31T14:26:00.000-08:00Good to see you posting GPW. You've been missed.Abenoreply@blogger.com