What should be the role of the General Council--what do you want/need/expect from the GC? Same for the District Council.
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
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37 comments:
George, thanks for asking the question! I’d love to see the General Council create an online environment that could provide for a greater collaboration of ideas and resources. So many times, I feel like my church is re-inventing the wheel, Sunday after Sunday… What if I had an engine for KNOWING that an AG pastor in Pittsburgh already created a 2 minute video clip on “forgiveness” that would be great for a sermon opener that I could download and use, in my context. I know that open sourcing already exists (thanks to Craig Groeschel and others), but sometimes I’m looking for something that has more of an “experiential” flavor to it. Doesn’t seem like it would break our bank… and it might open up another avenue for dialoguing and sharing together.
And I don't want to sound like that I want the GC to produce all of this multimedia wonderment... They would just creat the platform for those of us who have already created... to share and communicate with each other!
Great idea,
Beyond that, how about a human resource pool of people with like calling and vision. ie: church planting in given areas ( so and so has this vision, who in this area can come alongside and help), specialty ministries etc.
Let's bring General Council to Vegas in the future. There are some dynamic churches there and Vegas could use the change that Council could bring. Imagine all that power from Full-Gospel preachers. Especially after visits to all the buffets that are so abundant and cheap. The Strip would never be the same again>
Empowerment & discipleship of the laity. We have wonderful men & women called into ministry and serve our fellowship such as defined in I Corinthians 12:27. However there are many anointed laity that have similar calls on their life, but for various reasons did not pursue a FT career in the church world. Yet rather than foster the gifting God has placed inside of them we often become fearful of them. Perhaps even a little paranoid that they want to take over our churches. Do we really believe that as pastors we can gather more sheep all by ourselves? Often we get charmed by those around us that are ‘busy’ for God’s Kingdom, missing the person with a touch of God on their life. We have very little guidance on identifying a true calling, discipling them and empowering them to fulfill what God has called them to do. Yes, everyone can tell stories of how they were hurt, caught or injured by a non-pastoral interloper; hence, the need to figure out how to do it right. As the Shepherd of our folks, are we then to ignore the sheep that could be helpful in herding the others just in case we get burned again? Master Commission is a wonderful thing. But what about the adult on our church pew that is beyond the age of MC? Sure they can teach Sunday School, help in Royal Ranger, serve in the kitchen or even sing in the choir; is that the extent of their calling? How do we disciple and empower 1 Corinthians 12 laity safely? How can we foster and promote the call of God on a life instead of only creating busy worker bees within the church? Then we wonder why someone feels unfulfilled and they go to a different church where they can use their gifting? (Yes, worker bees are important too and they are fulfilling their calling)
kimangela03...
YES! Do we do anyone any favors by just placing them in any ministry without ascertaining their spiritual gifts and calling?
It is amazing what God does through someone who is working within his/her gifts.
1. We really ned to get our credentials renewal process online.
2. We also need to get our General Council online. The younger generation doesn't care to hobknob...but still wants to vote. However, it is a very expensive venture. I say get all the voting online....and put all the sessions online. I know GC wouldnt make as much money....but come on...it would double its involvement. This includes all of our highly qualified missionaries serving around the world who do not have the budget to fly home for it.
3. We need to revisit the 16 fundementals, including our sacred cow. If had some sort of online involvement...you could include the input from our scholars around the world. Why does our committe for doctrinal purity have so few educatd men and women? There is a plethora of educated men and women in Springfield...even if they chose not to open it up to an online event...
4. I love Ken's idea about open source sharing...videos, powerpoints, etc. If i was doing a class on Initial Physical Evidence....and i could find a resource from one of our esteeemed professors who gave a very good representation....how much would that help the body worldwide?
General Council in Hawaii. Why has this never been done?
Great question. What do the General Council Leaders/District Leaders perceive themselves to be and/or what they are able to practically do for pastors and churches? Are they "representatives" for pastors and churches? Our General Superintendent is a great man of God and so are all the other leaders that have led this great Assembly of people. However, in all honesty and w/o malice It appears that whatever any leader or leaders Dist., Etc. do it will have absolutely no affect on me or the church or community I pastor. Who ever the Gen., Dist., or Sectional leader is makes so little difference in what really happens in my ministry and community. Whatever policies are made has so little to do with what is really happening in this community and church. What I expect from the leaders of all levels is to be on their faces before God praying for us all and I am sure they are. In that aspect they have affected my ministry, church and community. I do not expect anything else.
Hmm...
I like Kens' idea. Not only will a GREATER more interactive website be better able to RESOURCE the fellowship, but also make ALL of US feel more connected.
The current website sucks. It looks old, irrelevant, and "churchy." YUCK! Put some color in that thing. Seriously, it looks "old-manish."
GC in Vegas; great idea, but not going to happen. Ain't no way in hades NYD is going to let teeny-boppers be exposed to so much BLATANT sexual appeals and innuendos. (have you ever been to Vegas!?!?! Thank God for the churches that are there, but many in our fellowship could not handle it. Sorry.)
GC in Hawaii; what's the matter with you? If the masses can't afford Indianapolis, how in the world could they afford a flight to Hawaii?!?!?!?
I say GC in NYC!! (Too bad they already said "NO" to this idea, because it was too expensive."
So, in closing:
1 - start with updating the website with a FRESH look
2 - OPEN SOURCE
3 - Credential Renewal Online
4 - Lead, rather than follow in EVERYTHING.
Kill Rangers and Missionettes please and get something relevant for the kids
Zoro.........you just gave a few people heart palpitations using the "S" word
I know the national office is working hard to see that the rangers program is updated...
Didn't the Rangers within the last few years just totally overhaul the program?
Rangers is relevant when made relevant by relationship-building commanders.
It really did reach, teach, and keep our boys while their dads were in Iraq or absent all together.
BTW, the Ranger Kids curriculum (product of the overhaul) is outstanding.
For you that don't know, i am the National Programs Coordinator for Royal Rangers, which means that I oversee all curriculum development and revision, as well as serve as the liaison to all other ministries. I can say that in the last year we have conducted several thousands of surveys both online and at General Council to catch the pulse and heart of our churches, pastors, leaders, parents, and most importantly, boys. Royal Rangers is committed now, if not more than ever, to reaching a broader group of boys and mentoring them to becoming the next generation of Christ-like men and servant leaders.
Ryan Beaty
The problem with rangers is not in the program its in the people. i am sorry to say this but we have visited several ag churches and almost everyone one of them has that one leader that is just creepy. im sorry i know this is rude but pastors try to look at the outward appearance for a minute. that socially backward 29 year old chubby single guy wearing the too-tight uniform looks like a pedophile to me. He may be the most spiritual guy ever but my red flag has gone off and son is sitting in "adult bible study" with us. let creepy guy lead the bible study and you pastor go work with the rangers. the days of anyone with a willing heart can work with the kids has got to be over. background checks are all well and good but also do a frontground check from a visitors perspective.
Historically, it was for doctrinal purity and sending missionaries. It seems beyond that I see it as a network of people trying to reach the same goal of reaching our world (here and international) for Christ. What that should look like in my opinion is an emphasis on relationships and idea/resource sharing.
Some examples would be;
to have sectional meetings that are at least 80% relational and maybe 20% business.
Ken Dechant's suggestion is a great idea. That would be awesome.
Districts should hire person/s that have both training and experience in stuff like website design and graphic design so the District media is actually professional looking and ministries in the district could have someone to go to for help with this kind of stuff without spending thousands of dollars.
on a side note. its very difficult for me to tell the GC about curriculum because I see the bigger problem to be with leader training at the local level than with a certain program or curriculum.
This thought will be radical to be sure - however in absolute seriousness consider the possiblity of: Eliminating all national leadership and General Headquarters, buildings, personel, etc. Sell it all distribute to all Districts. Each District would be sovreign all inclusive - missions, youth, credentialing, etc. Before you throw this out - remember we live in a new millenium - think about the possibilities or whatever.
George:
Thanks for your participation--Congratulations on your church vote!!
I'm more in favor of eliminating District Offices. Let children's pastors run kids camps, youth pastor's run youth camps, WM's women's retreats etc. Set-up regional offices to deal with pastoral/church issues. A lot of waste goes on in these districts and I'd rather see the monthly dues that each pastor has to pay go to the national office to be used in effective church planting and creative advertising.
Eliminate the districts...interesting.
Some don't think we need the district or national offices, either one. But one thing's for sure - we could do without at least ONE of them, which one would be best to eliminate I'm not sure but the sooner this excess is trimmed off of the AG, the better.
Some say that we should eliminate the General Council. Others say we should eliminate the District Council. Some say we should eliminate the Section.
Some say we should eliminate paying tithe. Others say we should centralize our tithe so that we can be more strategic.
Some say we need to simplify credentialing. Others say that we
need more qualified ministers.
All of these proposals are in direct conflict!
All of the principles may seem in direct conflict but one thing seems a recurring theme - elimination.
Anon 1/26 - 10:11
"need more qualified ministers"
some districts have "reserve" ministers stacked like cord wood. The poor logs at the bottom are finding it hard to breathe.
How about accountability? What is being done about a Pastor who takes a church from 1,100 to 350 in 5 years? What if a Pastor is running staff Pastor's out of town every year (8 in 5 years)? What about the church that can't hold onto a youth pastor for more than 18 months?
Roger
These "pastoral inefficiency" issues are very real. And greatly undermine our fellowship.
(It's ironic to me that a church planter has to go through intensive interviews, asessments and approval processes, despite that the fellowship is giving him nothing, but a pastoral candidate can take on a million dollar facility and a large congregation with only a local interview!)
But back to the inefficiency issue--unfortunately, any solution requires some degree of diminished "church sovereignty" or diminished pastoral authority.
Increasing board accountability and/or denominational accountability over pastors is not popular these days--the move seems to be toward increasing pastoral autonomy.
It is ironic to me--the generation that rejected top-down, controlling hierarchy seems to be building one of it's own.
Roger's comments are most interesting. We have seen time after time a pastor come in, both senior pastors and staff pastors and blow cannons through congregations. We've observed great silence between ministers/leaders not wanting to 'speak ill' of another minister, so the problems just move from section to section to district to district. If there are not issues of moral failure, sin or such, but rather blowing congregations to the wind, what is our system of accountability? Often those members who raise extremely valid concerns are told to just 'go elsewhere'.
Since AGWM is a part of the General Council I would like to suggest some discussion for that arena. No sense in reinventing the wheel. Anyone interested in discussing missions as we know it and the involvement of media in missions, please check out:
http://joshua1six.com
Pastors, missionaries & anyone concerned with the great commission please share any and all ideas, suggestions etc...
Tripeiro
One of the reasons that you can be dismissed from the AG as a minister is inefficiency in the ministry....WOW. How many would we lose?
Quite frankly many pastors would love to have a youth pastor who would stay for more than 18 months but it's very difficult to find one. And I'm not convinced it's because the SP is always "running them off." I know of plenty of situations where that is not the case.
since a hotly discussed topic was pulled from this site does anyone now believe that there is no pressure at all from districts/headquarters to censor thoughts and discussions? Seems mighty fishy to me.
Maybe the topic was pulled because things were being disclosed that could or were causing legal issues pertaining to the case? Or maybe it was because there was some character assassination happening by some anonymous posters. That may be the reason it was pulled not the "secret policing" by any office.
It would have been nice for someone to at least say something about it being pulled
Several weeks ago, I asked the original bloggers why they were no longer posting. Their basic response was that they felt the purpose of this website had been served, and they were returning their focus to their churches. In response, I too decided to sign off and focus on other things than FutureAG. No one from national headquarters or any district or any other organization asked Paul to pull the Jeff Leake's article. I, however, did ask Paul to pull the entire site down, or at least to disable comments. Why? Because if the moderators of the blog are no longer going to participate in the site, it doesn't make sense to leave the site up.
And no, I didn't make this request response to pressure from my dad, which is I'm sure what the conspiratorially minded will think.
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